Coniston Old Man


Forum » Walk Reports » Lake District

By Yeti on 09/07/19 at 4:07pm

Hills walked:
The Old Man of Coniston (Wainwright, Birkett, Marilyn, Hewitt, Nuttall, HuMP, County Top - Historic, Fellranger, Synge, Sim, and Tump)
Date started:23/06/2019
Distance:8.3 km or 5.2 miles
Ascent:734m or 2408ft
Start OSGB:SD301974
Naismith:2:53

Really like this hike, did this on Tue 2nd July. It was nice and quiet with some good views.



By TallPaul on 09/07/19 at 4:11pm

Wow, you didn't hang around if you did it in 1:39, given that the Naismith time is 2:53 (and for most people that's pretty fast).


By Yeti on 09/07/19 at 4:21pm

Ummm, don't know where that time came from, it took a lot longer than that!!! :D More like 4hrs+


By TallPaul on 09/07/19 at 4:22pm

It's done automagically based on your GPX track. I'll take a look at it and see if I can work out what's going on.


By Yeti on 09/07/19 at 4:28pm

I use the OS Maps website for planning routes and the iPhone App for Navigation - don't know if that helps at all. We did have the odd route that wouldn't show the elevantion - think they still have more work to do on both platforms.

John.


By TallPaul on 09/07/19 at 5:22pm

OK, now I am confused as your GPX track claims to have been created by plotaroute.com


By TallPaul on 09/07/19 at 5:21pm (last edited 09/07/19 at 5:24pm)

OK, this is weird. I don't know how much you know about the GPX file format but the key thing you need to know about is that it can record walks in two different formats:

  • as a route which records where you intend to go, so each route waypoint consists of a latitude and longitude in WGS-84 plus, optionally a label. So if you're using this with a GPS the GPS should direct you from waypoint to waypoint.
  • as a track which records where you went - and that normally comes from a GPS which you carried on your walk. So each track point consists of a latitude and longitude in WGS-84, an elevation in metres (using the datum you choose but in the UK hopefully OSGB-36), and a date and time in UTC.

So, bearing that in mind, with your GPX file I'm seeing a track but it shows a start time of 2019-06-23 at 00:00:00 GMT and an end time of 2019-06-23 at 01:39:08 GMT. That's where the total time is coming from as we derive it from the GPX track. However, as you said, you did this walk on 2019-07-02 so what's going on.

I see in the metadata it says "Route created on plotaroute.com" and, having had a quick play with their site, they appear to let you plot a route but to then download it as a track (which is, to say the least, dubious). If you do that then as well as the latitude and longitude for each point they include elevation (although not to the OSGB-36 datum, they're probably using WGS-84 as it's a worldwide site) and time too. The times appear to be recorded on the basis that the first track point is logged at 00:00:00 GMT on the day you create the route and the time at each subsequent point is based, I think, on an assumed speed of about 3mph.

So it looks to me like you created this route on 23rd June when planning your trip and it's that which you've downloaded from their site as a track and uploaded to our site. Is that right?


By Yeti on 10/07/19 at 8:38am

Hi Paul, Your pretty much on the button, except I didn't plot the original route, I just exported the GPX and inported it into OS Maps (I do like the 3D fly through feature). My knowledge is next to zero with GPX files.

This was the route I exported. Plotaroute.com - 519440

May I ask what you are using to interogate the file?
I guess if I re-plot the course from scratch it should give a more acurate time frame for the walk.

I have learned the hard way, that the estimates in distance on OS Maps do not include the Elevation. lol. We failed to complete the whole route for Glyders Fawr and Devil's Kitchen (18km) in March, got to the peak but had to cut it short as sun was going down. John.


By TallPaul on 10/07/19 at 9:26am

Hi Paul, Your pretty much on the button, except I didn't plot the original route, I just exported the GPX and inported it into OS Maps (I do like the 3D fly through feature). My knowledge is next to zero with GPX files.

I suggest you consider using our GPX mapping app in future. That doesn't corrupt tracks (and it also offers a 3D mode if you're a supporter - which a lot of our regular users are).

May I ask what you are using to interogate the file?

It's just a plain text file in XML so you can use any program which can view a text file (so in my case less as we use Linux on our desktops) but you do have to know how to interpret it.

I guess if I re-plot the course from scratch it should give a more acurate time frame for the walk.

Not if you use plotaroute. If you export it from plotaroute as a route (rather than a track which is the default) and then import that into our GPX mapping app then you'll get the Naismith time, which gives you a reasonable minimum time to do a proposed route. But that won't help with this walk report as it only uses tracks (and I'm going to tweak the code today to not show "time taken" for tracks from plotaroute).

I have learned the hard way, that the estimates in distance on OS Maps do not include the Elevation. lol. We failed to complete the whole route for Glyders Fawr and Devil's Kitchen (18km) in March, got to the peak but had to cut it short as sun was going down.

Again, I suggest using our GPX mapping app - that does include elevation.


By TallPaul on 10/07/19 at 1:39pm

OK, I have modified the code so that times in tracks which were created by plotaroute.com are ignored, both here in the forum and in the GPX mapping app.

I have also removed the time from this walk report.


By Yeti on 11/07/19 at 8:44am

Thanks Paul, I will become a supporter, but not till the end of the month - the week away broke me! lol

Hopefully will be back to Lakes in October to do Helvelwyn via Striding Edge - Glenridding Circular. The route also visits a couple of other peaks. This one will be a Hostel visit for cheapness. Also want to re-do the Scafell Pike route on my own to see how long it takes me.

John.


By ThinArthur on 15/07/19 at 2:23pm (last edited 15/07/19 at 2:30pm)

Hi Paul, Just happened to bump into this thread on a casual meander through the forum and noted the discussion on tracks/routes. You probably know all the following, and it may not be relevant, but just in case...

I usually create routes for future walks in the WalkLakes mapping area (why wouldn't you?). However, I usually convert these into tracks (via Garmin Basecamp which makes this very easy to do) before loading on to my GPS - this is because my routes often have a large number of waypoints, exceeding the level that the GPS is designed to work with. In general, I find it easier/less hassle to navigate using a track file rather than a route.

After a walk, however, I do upload the track file from the walk itself, not the created/converted one, to find out the distance, ascent etc.

Simon


By TallPaul on 16/07/19 at 8:14am

Some questions:

  1. Which GPS are you using? Some sort of Garmin presumably?

  2. What is the limitation on the number of waypoints?

  3. Would it be useful for you to have us export the route as a track, or do you need to use Basecamp anyway to push it to your GPS?



By ThinArthur on 17/07/19 at 8:59pm

Thanks for your reply. In answer to your questions:

Which GPS are you using? Some sort of Garmin presumably?

Yes, Garmin Oregon 750.

What is the limitation on the number of waypoints?

250 points per route (n.b. in case you are interested in a reference, see: https://www.navigation-professionell.de/en/how-many-data-garmin-handhelds-wearables/). This might sound like quite a lot, but I find I can easily go over if I plan a walk of more than 15 miles, particularly if I'm looking for a reasonably high degree of accuracy with regards to distance/ascent

Would it be useful for you to have us export the route as a track, or do you need to use Basecamp anyway to push it to your GPS?

It would be useful, but as you indicate I do pretty much have to import tracks/routes into Basecamp to load on GPS (is alternatives but they are a bit cumbersome). So, a nice to have.

Kind regards,

Simon


By TallPaul on 17/07/19 at 9:16pm

250 points per route

Hmmmm ... that does seem to be the Garmin standard looking through that list. I think I'll add a warning when people add 250 points (but allow logged in users to disable it, as for people like you it's not really relevant given your workflow).

It would be useful, but as you indicate I do pretty much have to import tracks/routes into Basecamp to load on GPS (is alternatives but they are a bit cumbersome). So, a nice to have.

OK, I'll add it a fair way down my long list. ;)


By SheepFarmer on 20/07/19 at 1:30pm

I do what ThinArthur does in terms of - route from this site, into Basecamp converted to track & shoved onto GPS. But having had a fiddle despite what Garmin say I can get about 600 point routes, which seems to be the max number Basecamp will convert a track into even when setting the number higher manually onto Etrex 30 & Oregon 700. Plus as I've previously mentioned elsewhere on these forums putting on as a track avoids having loads of markers obscuring map details.



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